Hello everyone, and welcome to our "tWR Interviews", where we interview experienced writers of our community about the art of writing!
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and share the article so we can spread this amazing resource around!Today we're interviewing ML-Larson, PennedinWhite and ThornyEnglishRose on plot building. With added wisdom from raspil, LadyLincoln, julietcaesar, neurotype-on-discord, illuminara and LiliWrites!
If you want to get some more educational reading, here are the other interviews we've released so far:
- On Writing
- Prose and Poetry Basics
- To Rhyme Or Not To Rhyme?
- Description and Vocabulary in Prose
- Characters, Imagery and Metaphors
- Vocabulary, Narrative Voice and POV
- Rhetoric Figures in Poetry
Our interview focuses on plot building.
When writing a story, do you think of the plot beforehand, do you actually build it prior to writing the actual story or does it build itself as you go? I'm referring both to shorter and longer (even novel-length, if you've ever written any that long) works here, so if your process is different for the two, please explain!
LadyLincoln, Most works I have an idea of exactly what I wish to do, in regards to the particular story’s timelines and so forth, though its plot usually builds itself as I go along. I also jot down notes for upcoming scenes as I continue on with my writing journey that come to me while in the process of writing my rough drafts.
julietcaesar, I've always built as I went. I did try the whole "let's plot beforehand" but then stories always end up petering up because I don't feel motivated when I know where I'm going. I think this is linked to my own conception of writing as being a constant exploration of the unknown, and that goes with not knowing where my story idea might go. It's not the greatest process in the world because stories also tend to peter out this way as well, but it's been my natural way of writing for ages and the one that's mostly produced the gems of stories that I have finished and published. This goes for short stories and novels. But I have little patience for the length demanded by novels. Short stories are definitely my thing because at least when you're writing on the fly, you can conclude them quickly within 2000 words or so.
neurotype-on-discord, If you're looking for ideas on what to do in your own work, you should skip this. My process is terrible.
I don't think of any of those first. The first thing I do is come up with a "what if." What if someone tried to eat themselves? What if a human had to pretend they loved an AI? ...etc. The second thing I do is come up with the why. There is a famine. The human depends on the AI for an essential service. The third thing I do is come up with the ending. That person is royally fucked. The human becomes a really good liar.
Then I fill in the rest of the plot, which happens to go with character and setting development because you can't create one independently of the other. I do all of this with an eye to the themes I want to explore, which are determined by the ending.
This happens in my head.
I've found the process breaks down at around 30,000 words. If I want to write a novel, I have to think beyond that. I still don't write it down, but that's because I'm a jackass with a sufficiently eidetic memory to Ctrl+F anything I need to reference in my own story.
Seriously, don't do this.
LiliWrites, Usually I get an idea that I quickly write down. I tend to wake up with a scene in my head. Two people meeting on a train platform, or a child wandering around a grassy field. Most recently I had an idea for a woman visiting a "Passing House" where they performed legalized euthanasia. She was there to go over the catalog of services offered. I write down what I see in my head and go from there. If a larger plot develops, I'll start the hard work of building the world and the characters. But it almost always starts with just a single scene I can't not write down.
illuminara, The easiest way I can explain this is by comparing my planning process to that of constructing a building. First, an architect designs the building. You have to have a blueprint before you can break ground. It would be absolutely absurd to start putting up walls with no idea of how they fit into a blueprint, no foundation, or no support beams. That's how I view writing a story. There are certain things I have to have planned before I begin writing the prose.
On the other hand, an architect doesn't concern himself with interior design. That's a completely different task for a completely different person to worry about once the building is standing and complete. So I don't obsessed over trying to make the story look or sound pretty as I write. What good does a few fully-furnished rooms do you without a roof over them? Alternately, what good does a finished structure do you if it's not furnished for use?
In a nutshell, I try not to start writing a story until I'm sure I can actually complete it, and I always try to complete a story before I start editing and rewriting it. I'm not perfect and sometimes fail spectacularly, but this is my goal.
ML-Larson, Absolutely. Everything I write gets plotted out beforehand. It's usually a process that takes anywhere from a few hours to a few days, and starts with me writing down any tiny idea I have into a notebook, and building from there. Eventually, the ideas begin to take shape and form the basis for a story. Once I have everything in place, I take what I've made from my notes and write all of the key plot points out onto notecards, in order they'll happen in the story.
I can write about 8k a day this way, as opposed to spending the majority of my writing time trying to figure out what happens next. It also means less gets cut out in the editing process, since it's all fairly tightly laid out by the time I start writing.
ThornyEnglishRose, I always plan out the plot before writing, no matter how long the piece. I think it's very important to do so. The only difference the length of the piece makes is to the quantity of my notes, and I admit that if it's a very short flash fiction, I don't always bother to transfer the notes in my head to page or screen (though I probably should). Mind you, the subject to change. Often I'll think of new ideas, or an existing idea won't work out, or the characters will lead me somewhere I never anticipated. The thing to do then is revise my plan, draw arrows to move bits, scribble bits out, add new bits etc. and make sure it all works. Never write without a plan!
PennedinWhite, Writing a story, long or short, can be a complicated process if even the smallest of plans isn't laid down. Granted, some of us just like to write and then leave the planning to the editing stage, but whether we think we do or not, we are always planning -directly or indirectly.
For myself, it honestly depends on the length of the work in how much I plan, and how far ahead. I generally put together bullet points, crossroads of my thoughts and ideas for the story, and from that I formulate where they will meet. Things I want to make sure I include and sort of let the story form around those bullet points.
If I am writing longer pieces, I generally like to have more planned out as the story can feel overwhelming if my ideas are not written out and organised. That way, nothing will get lost in the chaotic fury that is my mind and fingers. And fine tuning any piece comes with editing, no matter the length.
How did you learn to create a distinction between attractive plot ideas and necessary plot ideas?
raspil, We all have to eat dinner before we get dessert. There are scenes/narrative/dialogue that we HAVE TO grind through in first drafts in order to move the story along. For me it starts just after the B-story. It can feel like a chore to
get through some scenes but that is unavoidable. I make sure I have a vibrant enough idea that I can get through those scenes with as little pain as possible. It's always going to be more fun to write the scenes where there's a ton of action and witty sarcasm and sex and stuff than it is the scenes where they're sitting in jail or alone at their mother's house waiting for the hammer to fall that sets the next fight scene in motion.
ML-Larson, I'm not really sure there's a difference, where plot is concerned. If action is advancing in an engaging and entertaining way, it's necessary. I suppose it's like the inclusion of filler in a story. If the story is just all Point A to Point B, it can feel a little tedious. Detours and meanders from the main plot, especially in longer works, are absolutely necessary, since often times they let you get to know the characters more.
ThornyEnglishRose, I think I'm still learning! The distinction usually becomes apparent only when I start to write. Sometimes an attractive idea doesn't work at all and needs to scrapped. If an attractive plot point is conducive to maximum enjoyment, even if the plot would work well enough without it, then I'd say that makes it necessary. It's a case of getting all my ideas down, then sorting the wheat from the chaff, whether at the planning, writing or editing stage.
PennedinWhite, Honestly, just through writing things out. As you progress through your story, especially the longer ones, you will find what is necessary and what is just excess that may not move the plot too much in one direction or another. Sometimes, the plots ideas may not always be planned ahead, at least to a point. There may be times, when I am writing a longer piece, I cannot tell the difference until I reach that point in the story where I am going to insert a specific plot idea. Though, most of the time you will know when you are writing it out.
Do you build your plot first, or its characters?
ML-Larson, It depends on the individual project, but if it's something brand new that isn't part of a series, they tend to come at the same time. The plot determines the characters as much as the characters determine the plot. By the time I've finished plotting and outlining something, I usually have a pretty firm grasp on the characters as well.
For the series, the plot tends to come first, since I already know most of the characters and what makes them tick. From there, it's a matter of picking the right characters for each story.
ThornyEnglishRose, Characters. Whatever the initial idea, it always comes with at least one character for it to happen to. I could never plan a plot if I didn't know the people (or animals, or robots, or plants etc.) involved; I need characters that I care about above all else.
PennedinWhite, It depends on the length of the piece. For shorter works, the building of characters isn't as necessary for me. With the plot in shorter works, I definitely like to have a game plan, though often for me, the game plan is the first few sentences. Those sentences are what will bring in the reader, and to get them hooked is the first job and I find the story will fill in around those sentences. They are my plot builders.
When writing longer works, I often plan out the characters first, because it will be their story that I am telling, and to have an idea of who my initial characters are, and who will drive the story as a whole, is a very important aspect to have laid out. From there, and the character's stories, a plot will be formulated. Bringing the character's stories together and building the world around them. Two different types of work, and two different approaches to writing them.
If you build your plot prior to writing the story, do you have a specific method for it?
ML-Larson, Oh, I suppose I answered this above. (in the question about attractive vs. necessary plot ideas)
ThornyEnglishRose, I find that if I write down my initial ideas, even it's only one or two, that stimulates my brain and the rest follows. I never really thought of it as a specific method, but I suppose what I do is this: scribble down everything I can think of, then put it into some semblance of order, then fill in the gaps - or, if I can't think of the right thing just then, write a question for myself (why does she decide to open the box? or something - not a real example!). Despite being so adamant that writers must have a plan, okay, I admit I sometimes leave a few gaps and hope I'll find the answers as I write (that works!). And, as I said before, my plans are always subject to change.
PennedinWhite, Since I do build my plot first in some cases, it can be a bit of a complex process for me at times. The use of a pencil and an eraser is quite prevalent. It generally starts with a bunch of random ideas; no particular thought process noted. After that, I usually bring in characters and assign various plot points with the characters before trying to draw lines and bring everything together. My mind, on its best days, is quite scrambled. So, this process probably isn't the most logical for everyone, and my process often varies for the type of writing, genre, or length. But the above method has worked well for me over the years.
Do you have a favourite "plot subject" that you write often about or that appears often in your stories?
ML-Larson, I'm not sure. Someone recently pointed out that there were a lot of adventures and journeys that happen in Lay of Runes, but those are elements that are common to that particular genre. There's also lots of death and war in this series, as well as sarcastic people who like to cause trouble. But I don't think any of that really carries over to anything else. Except maybe the sarcastic people.
ThornyEnglishRose, It's a broad subject, which is good for my writing, but yes I do. I'm mostly known for writing children's stories (I think), and I do enjoy writing about people in their formative years. The world is made by adults, for adults, and children can struggle to find power and support to get through their problems. They do however generally have more sense than adults, and I find it fascinating to explore how they find allies and their own strength in this world that so often, and so unjustly, looks down on them.
PennedinWhite, Psychology in some form or another, be it directly oriented with a disorder or thought processes. Or it might be indirectly, with subtle hints and what I am trying to point out, to make people think. Though, my longer works tend to be more fantasy based, without much of a leaning towards one "Plot Subject" or another. I have found that psychology has definitely permeated that area of my writing as well, in the building of my characters. It is a learning process to point out a plot subject, as some can be indirect as well, or even unintentional from the beginning.
Some questions for our readers!
- Did any of the answers catch you off guard?
- Did any of the answers particularly connect with you?
- Are there any questions that you would have answered differently?
A big, big THANK YOU to all who participated in this interview, your contribution was amazing.
If you reader have any questions, tag the deviant you want to ask them to! They knew they were signing up for it. Totally. 
>>All hail GinkgoWerkstatt for this beautiful skin.
